Help for Husbands Stranded in the Sexual Desert
March 2nd, 2009 by Laura M. Brotherson
Help for Husbands Stranded in the Sexual Desert
by Mark Chamberlain
Aaron was crying, too, as he drew Katy close to him and held her. Then he looked her in the eyes and said, “I hope that in time you’ll find it in your heart to forgive me for how immature I was back then. I’m sorry that my eagerness and sense of entitlement wounded you so deeply. I was wrapped up in what I wanted and thought I “deserved.”
LAURA’S NOTE: After some talk of the interesting discussion going on here in the Open Forum Discussion of this blog regarding husbands who find themselves in a sexual desert in their marriages, my good friend and fellow author, Mark Chamberlain, penned some suggestions below that may be of benefit to the many couples who long to find greater intimate and sexual fulfillment in their marriages. Here is an overview of his suggestions:
- Stop fanning the flames of frustration
- Replace certainty with curiosity
- Consider how you might unintentionally be making things worse
- Listen to and address your spouse’s concerns
- Reawaken gratitude and positive perceptions
- Build the foundations that support sexual intimacy
- Identify and address any effects of trauma
- Identify and address hormonal contributions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Many and varied are the challenges that can prevent couples from enjoying a mutually fulfilling sexual relationship. Each marital union has a one-of-a-kind personality, owing to the individuality of each spouse and complicated further by the interplay when they come together. Because of unique histories, tastes, and idiosyncrasies, each marriage is a chemical combination heretofore untried–an experiment in the truest sense of the word.
While this kind of dynamism adds to the mystery and beauty of marriage, it can also give rise to differences of opinion, misunderstandings, and hurt feelings. Too often, wounds fester instead of fade. Couples end up stuck in a negative cycle, each partner unintentionally performing his or her own steps in an unfulfilling but persistent dance. Some couples spend years of their lives stuck in ruts of bitterness or silent frustration.
Effects of Mutual Respect
Couples in which both spouses are highly satisfied with their sex lives have some of the same differences dissatisfied couples have. Instead of considering themselves incompatible sexually, they respect each other’s attitude and approach to sex. Their differences are treated as complimentary rather than competitive in nature.
The less interested spouse (more commonly the wife) is able to take her husband’s greater intensity as a compliment and an honor to her attractiveness. She can say no at times to his advances without degrading him or his spirituality in her own mind.
Her husband is able to take no for an answer and continue to treat her lovingly and affectionately. He sees her sexual sharing as a prize he is willing to pursue patiently. He exercises the kind of self-restraint that permits him to view the delaying of his gratification in this area of life as a worthy endeavor, not a frustration that just shouldn’t be occurring.
When spouses show the utmost mutual respect, they don’t demonize each other for their differences. She doesn’t see him as perverted because he’s more sexually-oriented. If she’s not interested in sex, she is conscientious about staying connected in other ways that are meaningful to him.
He doesn’t see her as frigid or blame her for his own sexual temptation or inappropriate thoughts or behavior. Rather than view their drier times as impositions, he takes them as opportunities to exercise his creativity to show affection, love, and esteem in other ways. He willingly takes advantage of the opportunity to practice and perfect his mastery of self.
Of course, I’ve just described an ideal that even the well-adjusted couples may waver from at times. However, too many good and well-intentioned individuals find that their relationship is far from this ideal.
Fortunately, if this is the case for you, there are some things you can do to reverse negative patterns and help awaken—or reawaken—your spouse’s sexual desire.
- Stop fanning the flames of frustration
- Replace certainty with curiosity
- Consider how you might unintentionally be making things worse
- Listen to and address your spouse’s concerns
- Reawaken gratitude and positive perceptions
- Build the foundations that support sexual intimacy
- Identify and address any effects of trauma
- Identify and address hormonal contributions
Stop Fanning the Flames of Frustration
A husband’s sexual frustration may be understandable, but for the sake of the future of the marital relationship it needs to be contained and reversed. Husbands must stop justifying their negative internal and external reactions. Husbands may feel like they “have the right” to continue to be frustrated, but it’s sort of like having the right to take out a pistol and shoot yourself in the foot. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
It’s important to interrupt overt and unseen frustration reactions. Whether you realize it or not, whether they seem to or not, whether it feels like you’re keeping your feelings to yourself or not, such reactions are toxic and inevitably infect the relationship. When a woman senses that her husband is frustrated, and then on top of that feels like she’s being blamed for it, her instinct is usually to draw away from him rather than to draw nearer to him.
It may seem to her that the only way out from under the blame that he is heaping upon her “unjustly” is to see him as the source of the problem. She becomes motivated to see him as being in the wrong—or perhaps even flawed as a person, and may “build a case” for that in her mind. This is the death knell of her intimate desire. She may feel compelled to view him, his expectations, and his very sexuality as distasteful, off-base–even extreme.
Replace Certainty with Curiosity
Confidence in your negative assessment of your spouse is the enemy of curiosity. Once we think we see “how things really are” and conclude that that’s exactly how they’re going to stay, we close ourselves off to understanding and growth. We no longer remain open to discovery and learning.
Unfortunately, at this point, the genuine reasons behind our spouse’s reactions can’t get through the wall of our certainty. Our spouse usually has very good reasons for responding the way they do, but we’ll never discover those reasons unless we humble ourselves enough to admit that perhaps we don’t know what’s behind their reaction.
A more helpful approach is to assume that there are good, reasonable explanations as to why your spouse shuts down sexually. Assume that, if you could fully empathize with your spouse, experience her life the way she has, you would be responding exactly the way she does.
Assume that what she wants and needs feels just as important to her as what you want and need is to you. Assume that she may feel just as hopeless of attaining it, and that it causes her just as much distress as you feel over what you’re missing in the relationship.
Consider How You Might Unintentionally be Making Things Worse
Unfortunately, the way we instinctively react when things don’t go the way we want them to may exacerbate the very situation we find troubling. For instance, a husband who feels deprived sexually may begin to see his wife as asexual. When he feels frustrated by her unresponsiveness he may pull back from her emotionally. As a result, she may feel cut off, judged, and reticent to express any kind of physical affection out of fear that “it’s never enough for him.”
Keep in mind, as well, that the emotional connection between a husband and wife is what usually feeds female sexual desire.
She may also see her husband as oversexed and may even questions his righteousness. The more bothered she is by his actions and words, the more reactive she is in response. His “pathology” seems to grow in the same proportion as her concern over it. At the same time, her “pathology” (in his eyes) seems to grow in proportion to how threatening it feels to him.
Indeed, the proportions of each spouse’s “pathology” do tend to match, since they’re both contributing to the dynamics that are bringing about the very reaction in the other that they don’t want. Each partner’s role in the downward spiral is unintentional and often subconscious. In fact, couples are expert at seeing the other person’s role in a problem clearly, while being woefully inept at identifying their own.
The problem between them was clearly evident two years into Ivan and Clara’s marriage. When he climbed into bed, he often rolled toward her side of the bed and put his hand on her waist or hip. Over the months, Clara had become wary of any kind of touch. She felt that if she responded favorably, Ivan would almost always push for more.
When she wasn’t in the mood for lovemaking, it seemed to her that she had to lie very still so that he didn’t mistake her movement for responsiveness to an implied invitation. When Clara lied very still or seemed to be asleep, Ivan worried that perhaps his bid for her attention hadn’t gotten through. He’d start to caress her or ask if she was still awake.
By the time they’d been together four years, they were stuck in a tug-of-war that neither of them would have predicted during their courtship. Clara always dressed out of Ivan’s sight because she knew that her unclothed body turned him on.
She was very gun-shy about getting him excited, not because she didn’t like sex but because she didn’t like the way their interactions went when he was pushy or pouty—the only two modes he seemed capable of these days once the topic of sex came up.
Ivan was so hungry for affection that he felt desperate. He was on the lookout for any indication from Clara that today might be one of those extremely rare days in which she might be interested.
One morning, he was still in their bedroom when he heard her turn off the shower. He should have been out the door and headed to work by then, and usually would have been. However, he just couldn’t pass up the opportunity to at least try to spark something that might turn into something more.
He walked into the bathroom. As he opened the medicine cabinet to grab his toothbrush (which was still wet from 20 minutes earlier), he looked in the mirror at Carla. “You are very sexy,” he said with a smile. Carla sighed, seemed to roll her eyes, and quickly covered herself with her bathrobe. Ivan quickly re-brushed his teeth and left, feeling more hopeless than ever.
Listen to and Address Your Spouse’s Concerns
In a tender moment with her husband Aaron, Katy admitted that the entire arena of sexuality had come to feel like an unfair playing field. How could she enter into that realm with him without feeling intimidated.
She knew that he had been disappointed early in their marriage because she’d had more reserved sensibilities about sex. With tears welling up in her eyes she admitted how painful it had been to realize that he wished he had married a girl more “like that”—meaning more sexually daring and provocative.
She felt that he would rather be married someone else. At first, Aaron couldn’t believe what he was hearing. He remembered expressing to her some of his disappointment in how their love life was going, but he had no idea that it had affected her so deeply.
Yet here Katy was, describing how heartbreaking it had been to discover that she was a disappointment to him in this most intimate area of life. He had assumed that she didn’t care about sex. He wondered now if at some point she had concluded that she couldn’t afford to keep caring, when she felt like such a failure.
Aaron was crying, too, as he drew her close to him and held her. Then he looked her in the eyes and said, “I hope that in time you’ll find it in your heart to forgive me for how immature I was back then. I’m sorry that my eagerness and sense of entitlement wounded you so deeply. I was wrapped up in what I wanted and thought I “deserved”—consumed with what I thought marriage was all about.
I was selfishly disappointment that you weren’t more into sex, but I’ve never wanted to be married to anyone other than you. Over the years I’ve only developed a greater love and deeper bond to you. Despite everything, I’ve become ever more committed to you—to us.”
After wiping away some of Katy’s tears, Aaron continued, “I wish we could go back and start over in this one area of our relationship. I’d be so much more patient and tender with you. I wish I could prove to you that it’s okay for you to be exactly who you are sexually. If that’s ‘nervous’ for now, I want to be with a nervous Katy; if that’s ‘timid,’ then I want to be with a timid Katy. I don’t want anything more than being with you exactly as you are.”
This is the kind of heart-to-heart clarification and discovery process that can help couples remove old impediments, clarify misunderstandings, heal emotional injuries, and close the distance that has left each of them feeling separate and alone. Things aren’t going to be resolved for Aaron and Katy overnight, but interactions like these can at least get the momentum going in the right direction.
Reawaken Gratitude and Positive Perceptions
So how do you reverse the cycle and start a new one, if conflict or stagnation has been the norm? Instead of focusing on what’s missing, you can start paying more attention to what is available. Often, even when important relationship elements are missing, there remains an abundance of ways to connect.
Keep track of what you enjoy about each other. Rehearse in your mind those things that you appreciate in your spouse and think about them when you’re not together. You may even choose to write them in a journal or keep some other record. As your list of positives lengthens, your attitude toward your spouse will soften.
For years Greg and Jodi had been living more like roommates than a married couple. Early on, they struggled bitterly over sex. As their intimate relationship deteriorated to nonexistent, their friendship seemed to die with it.
When Jodi decided to start doing graphic design work again for online clients, Greg could have continued to keep his distance. However, he could see how excited she was and it made him miss being more a part of her life.
He made a point of going to find her at the end of the day when he got home from work, wherever she was in the house, and check in with her about her day. She would excitedly show him projects she was working on. She’d ask his opinion of design options and sought his guidance on financial decisions or with legal considerations.
Later, after their entire marriage had gotten back on track, both Greg and Jodi looked back to that time as a key turning point. When asked about what had made the difference, Jodi responded that each of them had somehow been able to make a fresh start. They both tried to interact in positive ways and didn’t let themselves get emotionally swamped by resentments over the past.
Build the Foundations that Support Sexual Intimacy
If you remained chaste while dating, chances are you didn’t feel miserable and deprived all the time. You enjoyed hand holding, being physically near each other, the scent of her perfume, or the way she looked at you in those moments when you felt close to each other. Those bridges of connection may not have seen much traffic recently, but that doesn’t mean they no longer exist.
Take time to kiss her before you part in the morning, to touch her on the shoulder or hug her when you arrive home at the end of the day. Take a half-step into her personal space when you’re talking about something important. Hold her gaze more often when you’re conversing.
Some couples find that it’s helpful to temporarily remove sexual intercourse as a consideration and go back to the kind of intimacy they shared when they were first dating.
Wanda remembered that she and Ken had plenty of desire for each other before they got married. They kept their relationship in-bounds according to their religious beliefs, but they felt a building sense of yearning for each other.
Since then, things had deteriorated to the point that they felt very little spark for each other, so she suggested that they go back to doing what they were doing when their passions were at their hottest.
They decided to take sexual intercourse out of the equation for a time. They spent more time gazing into each other’s eyes. They kissed and kissed and kissed, rediscovering the art of light, tender kisses and “all-out making-out.”
In fact, now that they kissed more and could be physical in ways that they had tried to avoid when they were dating, they stumbled upon some things that were quite titillating and erotic. They went on more dates. And they were excited to see each other at the end of the day.
They more thoroughly enjoyed the time they spent together and longed for more. They didn’t rush their way back to intercourse, but built toward it incrementally, as they came to cherish each other more and more. As a result, sex became more meaningful, more charged with emotion. It became a way to convey caring and feel closer to each other.
Identify and Address the Effects of Trauma
Olivia remembered being warned that her relationship with her husband might be affected by the sexual abuse she had suffered as a child. However, when things seemed to be going fine seven years into their marriage, she figured she had dodged that bullet because Trent was such a great guy and she trusted him so much.
It wasn’t that big a deal to her that she had never experienced an orgasm—or at least she didn’t think she had. And Trent didn’t seem to mind that it usually required quite a bit of advance notice for them to have a successful intimate experience. Katy didn’t know that many women didn’t have it as hard in “working themselves up for” and prepare themselves mentally for lovemaking the way she did.
It was Trent’s concern that finally convinced Olivia to seek treatment. Over a three month period, she talked with a counselor about the abuse she had suffered and some of things that had long troubled her about it. She had been molested by a brother who was three years her senior. He came into her room at night and touched her genitals while she pretended to be asleep.
This went on over a two-year period, and toward the end he began to get more aggressive. It was then that Olivia knew she had to build up the courage tell her parents. Sitting at the kitchen table and telling them that night was the hardest thing she had ever done. The abuse stopped immediately and her brother was required to leave the family home for a time and get treatment.
The counselor asked Olivia to describe the abuse she had suffered. It was the first time she had talked out loud about some of the things that had happened. The counselor listened and asked questions. At the end of the second session, he said, “It can be important to get these things out in the open. It is a shame that all of that happened to you, a real shame. However, those events, those acts, are not yours to be ashamed of.”
Perpetrators commit destructive acts in a shameless way. Sometimes victims, sensing the vile nature of the behavior, end up taking on the shame that should belong to the perpetrator. It feels as though someone needs to feel guilty about what happened. And if the perpetrator is not taking responsibility or feeling an appropriate sense of shame, the victim becomes a scapegoat for all those bad feelings.
Throughout the following week, Olivia had a flood of memories of events and the guilt and shame she had felt over them. Feelings, she could now see, that had been displaced from where they really belonged. She had felt ashamed of the bodily maturational changes that had seemed to attract her brother, ashamed that some of the things he did had felt good to her, and embarrassed that she had not opened up to her parents sooner.
She felt ashamed that she “let it go on” for almost two years before putting a stop to it. She felt guilt over the anguish and distress the revelation had caused her parents, guilt that her brother had had to leave the home, shame over experimenting with masturbation and succumbing regularly to that habit during her teens and early twenties at times of stress, and even guilt over the money her parents had spent on her brother’s treatment, which meant that her family kept driving their old car because they couldn’t purchase the van they’d been saving for.
It felt good to Olivia to unload these feelings of guilt and shame during her counseling sessions. She was also able to cleanse her soul by writing these things in a notebook between sessions. She started to feel lighter and more carefree in her everyday life.
A month and a half into counseling, Olivia began to focus on the impact the abuse may have had on her sex life with her husband. Although she felt secure with Trent, she did not feel completely safe and comfortable when they began to interact sexually. She realized that her feelings would shut down when things started to get sexual.
She noticed herself beginning to feel detached and disconnected. This was the survival reaction that had enabled her to endure and survive the ongoing molestation when she was younger, but now it was disconnecting her from her emotions and awareness of her body and bodily sensations.
That natural protective reaction was actually keeping her from being able to engage and interact in a sexually intimate way with her husband.
Olivia learned a simple breathing technique to help her relax, as well as some meditation skills to help her “stay in the here and now” when she and her husband were making love. This kept her from escalating into a busy-minded pattern of worry, fear, or embarrassment. She became more and more able to enjoy the experience and at times even “lose herself” in the pleasure she was beginning to feel.
When anxieties would arise or she found herself getting distracted, she’d take some nice, full breaths and focus again on whatever bodily sensations were occurring.
Olivia felt that counseling had not only helped her climb out of the emotional valley she’d been in as a result of the abuse, but was helping her and Trent climb to even greater heights as a married couple.
[LAURA'S NOTE: Many husbands make an automatic assumption that if their wives are not into sex like they are, then they must have been sexually abused. This is simply not an accurate assumption for many women. Effects of the "Good Girl Syndrome" (And They Were Not Ashamed, Chapter 1), relationship issues, physiological issues, and a plethora of psychological (mental/emotional) issues are enough to bring about an inhibited response without the added effects of sexual abuse.]
Identify and Address Hormonal Contributions
It’s not uncommon for women to have a low libido even if they don’t have any of the concerns described above. On average, men have 10-20 times more testosterone than women. This difference helps account for the desire gap that seems evident in many marriages.
Some women have testosterone levels that are low even when compared to other women. They may have little or no desire for sex. Shifts in estrogen, progesterone, and other hormones that occur with the menstrual cycle and with aging may also interfere with sexual desire.
Hormonal factors are best addressed with the help of a physician. Some women have benefited from taking testosterone or using testosterone cream. Others who have sought help for diminished sexual desire have discovered other hormonal concerns, such as problems with thyroid production.
If your wife is affected hormonally and by some of the emotional and relationship factors listed earlier, the process of developing a more satisfying sexual relationship may be all the more challenging. Nevertheless, rich rewards await those couples who succeed, and they will taste even sweeter given the effort and patience that went into their attainment.
[LAURA'S NOTE: Keep in mind that research has shown that approximately 75 percent of sexual dysfunctions have a psychological rather than a physiological origin. A friend who has a thriving medical practice as an OBGyn sees many couples with sexual concerns. He too supports the notion that most sexual issues are not medically or physiologically based. He fears that many husbands (and wives) are quick to jump on something like a pill or a patch that seems like an easy fix, instead of doing the more difficult and often necessary work of identifying and addressing underlying relational or psychological issues.]
Mark Chamberlain is a psychologist specializing in the treatment of sexual issues and addictions. He received his Ph.D. from Brigham Young University. Before beginning his private practice he worked at Utah Youth Village, McKay-Dee Hospital’s drug and alcohol treatment program, and taught psychology at Brigham Young University-Idaho. He has served on the boards of trustees for a domestic violence shelter, the Association of Mormon Counselors and Psychotherapists, and Evergreen International. Over the last several years he has travelled throughout the United States providing continuing education training for therapists on treating pornography addiction and other sexual problems. Mark is the author or coauthor of several books including Willpower Is Not Enough: Why We Don’t Succeed at Change, Wanting More: The Challenge of Enjoyment in the Age of Addiction, and Confronting Pornography. He and his wife, Jenny, are the parents of seven children.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Facebook — Let’s Connect!
Strengthening Marriage, Inc. — Become a fan!
“The Marital Intimacy Show” — Become a fan!
Subscribe to Laura’s Strengthening Marriage Blog
Subscribe to Blog Entries
Subscribe to Blog Comments
Subscribe to The Marital Intimacy Show
Receive Email Updates for Each Episode
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Laura M. Brotherson is the author of a groundbreaking book on sexual intimacy and marital oneness entitled, And They Were Not Ashamed—Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment. Laura shares her passion for building strong marriages and families as an author, intimacy expert, online show host, and relationship consultant.
Visit her website www.StrengtheningMarriage.com to learn more and to sign up for her “Straight Talk about Strengthening Marriage” newsletter. StrengtheningMarriage.com is your trusted resource for education, products and services to strengthen marriages . . . intimately!
© Copyright 2009 Laura M. Brotherson. All rights reserved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This entry was posted on Monday, March 2nd, 2009 at 4:29 pm and is filed under Intimacy, Marriage, Sex. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Dear Frustrated,
(Re: your Nov 5, 2009 comment)
I apologize to you and everyone for my sparse comments here. It’s difficult to find enough time for everything. But I didn’t want you or anyone think I had forgotten you. I regularly think about all those who post here on this blog.
Just a few thoughts for you…You mentioned your discomfort with having any orgasm outside of your wife’s body. It sounds like that’s based on a religious belief that you have. Are you saying that any sexual intimacy that doesn’t result in intercourse is not okay to you? I’m not sure if I understand you completely. I did want to suggest that there are many ways to be sexually intimate with your spouse that I don’t think constitute “masturbation.”
Are you okay with your wife stimulating you to orgasm? That would be one of the possibilities for you both — to avoid the pain your wife experiences with orgasm, and would not qualify (at least in my opinion) as masturbation. Are condoms acceptable to you? What about intercourse that stops before she reaches orgasm, then she helps finish things for you manually? How about the sexual intimacies of foreplay? Are you guys open to that? Can you see yourself deriving some satisfaction from those sexual activities even if they aren’t exactly the regular sexual fare?
Can you identify other sexual intimacies that would be satisfying for you, that also do not cause physical pain for your wife? Have you asked her what sexual activities she does enjoy, and what ideas she has for you if physical intercourse is off limits?
It sounds like the risk of pregnancy is also a huge issue for your wife. It would be interesting to see how much those fears play into her reticence regarding sexual things. I think you provide a good example of the complexities of a sexual relationship when it’s coupled with the realities of life. I think this is why the sexual relationship in marriage is such a crucible or refining fire — maybe more than anything else.
Depending on the nature of the emotional connection, there are always alternatives to maintaining some sexual connection. As couples age creativity becomes even more necessary.
My heart goes out to you and your wife. I pray that you both will be guided to answers that will work for you. I’m so glad you have found this site and have been willing to share your struggles here. I hope that you feel some benefit to being here even if you aren’t finding the exact solutions you desire…yet! : )
Dear Laura and Some Couple,
First off let me say “Thank you” for taking the time and making the effort to help me. Thank you for being friends. I do appreciate your suggestions and your insights.
To Some Couple I would say that I have realized what you have said has deep merit. That is to say that I need to do what I’ll call “Good Husbanding 101″. I believe that, whether there are intamacy problems in a marriage or not all husbands should be asking their wives how they can be better husbands. Or, if they choose not to do so openly to at least run through their own minds a list of areas where they know or believe that they can improve. That’s always sound advice and I’ve started to do several things, some at her suggestion, some on my own, that will put some mortar in between the bricks of our relationship.
Laura, I think we probably have a difference of opinion on what constitutes masturbation. Or, perhaps our difference might be best described as whether or not it’s acceptable to waste sperm. I don’t mean to be too graphic here but I think that when discussing sex there comes a point when specificity becomes necessary. I think that all things are a gift from God. My body certainly is. So, by extension everything that my body produces also comes from God. It would be silly to say that my body is a gift from God by the sperm it produces is mine alone. The term that I’m headed towards is this: “Being open to life”. If we are not open to the possibility of life in our marital coupling then what are we telling God “Wait outside my bedroom door for a while. I’ll be with you in a bit.”? I think that it is wrong to take the tremndous gift of sex and reduce it to merely that – sex for the sake of sex alone. And please don’t misinterpret this to think that I am saying that the only time a couple should have sex is when they want to have a child. As I’ve said earlier I’m a believer in Natural Family Planning as a way to not only conceive but equally to know when it’s okay to engage in sexual relations with your spouse and NOT conceive.
Now, before I start a big argument here, know that such is not my intention. I’m merely stating my beliefs. And, just so you don’t think I’m on a pedestal let me be the first to confess that I’ve not reached this point of belief quickly or easily. I am very much a typical American male who has, in the past, walked around thinking that sex was for my benefit and I could use it in any way that pleased me. God was not part of the equation for much of my sexual development.
The word “Masturbation” means exclusive of sexual intercourse. I suppose the obvious method would be by the use of ones hands but certainly with a little creativity other body parts could be substituted. The end result is the same – it is exclusive of intercourse. Or, put another way, it would be a sexual union that is not open to life. In the end, either the sexual union was open to life or it wasn’t. I think that in this regard there is a signfigant difference between the sexes; a woman stimulated to the point of orgasm wastes nothing – there was no loss of a chance for life whereas the same would not be true for a man. If a man gives his wife an orgasm she didn’t waste an egg but if a man ejaculates outside of his wife then he does in fact waste millions and millions of sperm. A chance for life was lost. God was not part of the equation.
Recently my wife and I had a couple of intimate couplings. They were very enjoyable but a) my wife paid for them the next day (yes, with increased pain) and b) they did not involve me ejaculating. So, in the end, I received my share of pain too. To stimulate ones testes and not release their production literally causes physical pain. Perhaps, Some Couple, you may know what I’m speaking about.
I really wish that I could just masturbate myself as often as I wanted to to relieve this “pressure” but as I’ve matured spiritually I don’t think that’s what God wants of me. I think it goes against His will. Also, it seems a bit of a lie to think that stimulating myself will decrease my desire for sex with my wife. Hardly. It actually has the opposite effect.
As I’ve read some of these postings I’ve started to feel more sorry for others whose wives suffer from the “Good Girl Syndrome”. In those cases the only thing preventing them from having a fultilling sexual relationship is straightening out what’s going on in the wife’s mind. My problem, our problem is different. My wife would enjoy sex a lot more if it wasn’t coupled with hours of increased pain following it. Indeed, if God did heal my wife I honestly believe that she would be a very willing particpant.
I don’t know what else to say. I hope that my musings here did not offend either of you two or anyone else who happens to read this. And, as I said I appreciate your efforts to help me and my wife in this area. I think it’s time for more prayer which is always a good idea.
May God bless you all.
Frustrated,
I see your persistence in working to find ways to improve the situation with you and your wife, and I admire you for that. Keeping at it even when things aren’t easy, and even when there may be no obvious path to “success,” is a key part of the experience of getting through these types of situations. Just considering the example that Sir John set for others of us on this message board, I think you’ll agree that his persistence even when he was really struggling, or especially when he was really struggling, clearly made a big difference in the improvements that came in his marriage relationship that he has posted messages about. And if you look carefully through all the messages he has posted, you may notice, as I did, the stages he went through of becoming more selfless, more dedicated, more committed to do the right thing regardless whether he felt he was getting what he wanted out of his efforts. I believe that one of the main reasons the Savior allows us to go through difficult challenges is that it is so effective in helping us be better people, more loving and forgiving and patient, more Christlike. I have noticed from the messages you have posted that you seem to be going through some of those changes also, bit by bit. Certainly there is quite a difference between the way you used to be, as you described it, and the impression of the personal character you come across with now. I can tell the difference even from one message to the next that you post. So it seems to me that you’re probably on the right track, if you keep trying to improve.
Regarding any potential differences of beliefs that individuals on this board may have, I think you’ll find that people will respect your convictions. It helps that you have explained more on your perspective so that there can be mutual understanding on what frame of reference each of us is coming from. One thing I still wanted to clarify was whether the physical pain is the main problem with intercourse between you and your wife, or whether fear of pregnancy was a big concern for her also. Since you mentioned Natural Family Planning, and since I wasn’t familiar with what that means, I read up on it a little.
Your wife must love you a lot considering she was willing to spend intimate time with you recently even though it caused her physical pain. Going through this type of sacrifice for you, and the sacrifice you went through for her to “stop” before ejaculation, are the types of things that can help build those unbreakable bonds of love, as each of us tries to put the needs of our spouse above our own. The physiological differences that men and women commonly have can either turn into barriers (if we only look at things from our own perspective) or can be a way to show understanding and love when we acknowledge and care about the feelings of our spouse. Was your stopping before ejaculation done with the intent to reduce the physical pain for your wife, or was it due to her fear of another pregnancy and the possible complications that could occur with that?
I don’t know if or when God will heal your wife. But I do know that it is within His power to heal, both physical injuries as well as emotional injuries. I encourage you to read through the New Testament (if you have not already done so recently), in particular the areas where the Savior heals those that are in pain or suffering, whatever the cause.
You mentioned that it’s time for more prayer. I have two more bits of advice to offer, if I may. The first is to look for others on this message board that perhaps you may be able to help from time to time, through sharing your experiences and concern. Through sharing your unique experiences and insights, you may be able to bless the lives of others in ways that no one else could. And as you help others, you may find that the Savior will ultimately turn it back to you for your benefit as well (see Acts 20:35 and Matthew 16:25).
The second is to consider, along with prayer, going through a period of fasting, with no food or drink for a few meals. Fasting provides a means of focusing and strengthening faith and commitment. In the New Testament you can read about how the Savior taught the principle of fasting as a means of dealing with especially difficult problems. I know it to be an effective practice through personal experience as well as the experiences of others I know.
Frustrated, I would be interested in seeing how nocturnal emissions or wet dreams fit in, after all, it’s a normal biological function that by it’s very nature “wastes sperm” “without the chance of life” without the conscious control of the man.
There is also evidence that many women experience similar dream-time arousal and orgasm.
Frustrated,
I have heard that the Catholic church was against birth control in general but I have not known details. I hope you don’t mind if I ask some questions regarding this topic. I feel like a know much more about Catholic teachings on this topic from your post, but it also raised many questions for me.
Is your position essentially the same as Catholic teachings?
I don’t understand the difference between “Natural Family Planning” and other forms of birth control. I think that I know the difference in application, but as a principle of morality, I don’t understand the difference. If the basic principle is to be “open to life” the intent of natural family planning is to avoid pregnancy the same as condoms or the pill.
Granted, natural family planning is generally regarded as the least effective method of birth control. Is that the difference? Is it ok to try to avoid conception as long as you don’t try very hard?
Is it the fact that Natural Family Planning does not use any man made tools? I did not think that was an important consideration in Catholicism, because I thought that “pulling out” was considered bad and is completely natural.
Is this simply a teaching that should be accepted on faith and there is not a solid explanation why Natural family planning is OK and all other forms of birth control are bad? I have several of those that I believe and practice and hope for greater understanding in the future.
Also, abstinence is the most effective form of birth control. If you don’t have sex, you certainly are not open to the potential of creating new life. Is it immoral to not have sex at least monthly after you are married?
I apologize if these questions seem silly or disrespectful. It seems crucial to understand the details of the Catholic teachings on this subject in order to discuss your situation in a meaningful way.
I admire tremendously your dedication to doing God’s will. I feel confident that our loving God will bless you in your efforts.
Sir John
Just a quick posting to Morguerat:
You are correct in that nocturnal emissions do waste sperm but, as you also correctly pointed out it is beyond the conscious control of the man and therefore the man is guilty of no sin. It is a natural act of the body (a “normal biological function” as you put it). I myself find that it takes about five months of not having an orgasm to have a nocturnal emission. And, if I remember correctly from various articles I’ve read, small amounts of sperm exit the body in ones urine from time to time but again this is beyond the control of the man and so no sin is committed.
As for women having similar dreams, yes, I’ve known those that have told me as much but it is of no issue, i.e. there is no sin in such because it is beyond the woman’s conscious control just like the man who has a wet dream.
I hope that explains my beliefs clearly.
Thank you for your time.
Dear Sir John,
Sorry to be so late in getting back to you but work has kept me gone and busy. Thank you for your post.
Yes, as I have stated earlier I am a Catholic and my position is the same as the Church’s. It hasn’t always been but I’m coming around to it mostly because I’m tired of ignoring the facts, the data, and the logic behind it all.
The difference between Natural Family Planning (”NFP”) and every other form of birth control is that NFP uses no artificial drugs, pills, patches, chemicals, or anything other than the woman’s body to determine when she is not only NOT fertile but also when she is fertile as well. I state it this way because many couples who were previously unable to conceive using other methods or training have done so with NFP. And, yes, you are correct, if a Catholic couple of child-bearing age were to marry and to use NFP to totally prevent pregnancy, then, baring serious medical issues, that would go against the Church’s teaching.
I should mention that the term “NFP” is a bit broad. These methods are sometimes called fertility awareness-based methods. There are five different types of NFP: The Standard Days Method, The TwoDay Method, The Ovulation Method, The Basal Body Temperature Method, and the Lactational Amenorrhea Method. What they all have in common is that they involve the study of what the woman’s body is doing and what it is telling her via different ways of monitoring such things as her cervical mucus or her body temerpature. When used exactly as shown these range from 95% to 99.5% effective. In practical use (where the users either weren’t taught the methods properly or, I believe, the users had intercourse on a day where the method said to obstain, the results range from 80 – 98%.
It seems funny – we all claim to be Christians, and we are, but oftentimes when it comes to our bodies we feel like the pharmacutical industry needs to “fix” the “problem” of fertility. I’ve always agreed with the old axiom “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” A woman’s body changes in many ways during the month and through the use of NFP her body gives off certain signs or signals that let her know when she’s fertile and also, when she’s not fertile.
Of course the thing with NFP is that it involves abstinence. How much? It depends upon which method is used and also it depends upon the woman and her cycle. In ninth-grade health class (way back when – I don’t know what they’re teaching now) they make it sound like a woman’s period arrives every 28 days exactly. In the real world… Well, just ask your wives. You already know where I’m headed on that one.
Anyway, our society creates birth control devices from the standpoint of this: fertility is a problem and it must be dealt with. Funny, I thought it was a gift from God. But no, our society largely treats it like a problem and you can “correct” with pills, patches, shots, etc.
So, going back to one of your points, Sir John, and I hope you already got this: with an effectiveness rating of 95-99.5 percent you can see that NFP is NOT the least effective method of controling pregnancy. Now, when it dips down to the 80 percentile range you can bet that most of the time the couple just flat out gets lazy and doesn’t follow the method. Perhaps you know the scenario: They guy is feeling amorous, he puts pressure on his wife, who knows, maybe it’s even their anniversary and he feels he’s owned something special, and the wife gives in. In my unofficial opinion that’s the number one cause of why NFP drops down in the effectiveness rating. I should also mention that NFP is the only method that requires the couple to both engage in it. Think of the pill – the woman does that. Same with the patch, a shot, the morning-after pill, etc. And, for the guy, well, he’s the only one that puts on the condom, right? And yes, I know that there’s such a thing as a female condom but I’m talking about most couples.
You had mentioned “pulling out”. A) that’s risky because of pre-ejaculate, and B) that is not open to life. Think about it from this perspective: Did God create the human body? If your answer was “No” then for all practical intents and purposes we have no conversation. But, I believe that you believe that the answer is “Yes, God is the designer of the body.” Well, then, did he design any mistakes or flaws into an image made in His own likeness? Of course not. So then, following that train of thought, if a woman’s fertility cycle is from God then isn’t it best that we strive to study it and understand it. I’ve been completely amazed at how many women I’ve known that seem to know less about their bodies than I did. I suppose it’s because I’m analytical by nature but seriously why wouldn’t a woman want to understand completely when she is capable of conceiving and when she is NOT capable of conceiving? That one baffles me.
For me, condoms are a lie. Condoms are like saying “I give you all of me… except one little thing.” That “one little thing” is a big thing in reality or people wouldn’t go to so much work not to share it.
And, as for all of the things like the pill and the patch and the other things – here’s the dirtly little secret: Most of them are abortifacients – that is to say that they cause spontaneous abortions to occur. Many people who abhor abortions think that the pill is safe and does no harm. They need to realize that the pill can cause spontaneous abortions.
Okay, back to some of the rest of your questions. No, it is NOT immoral to NOT have sex at least monthly after your married. Even the Holy Scriptures says that couples should be apart for a time to devout themselves to prayer.
I’ve revealed part of my wife’s physical limitations and here’s another part. She believes, based on the condition of her body that if she were to conceive that she may never walk again. A number of different physician’s from different countries have told her “I wouldn’t have kids if I was you.” because of her medical condition. So, when she sees couples who have large families (think Catholic stereotypes here) and she knows that they’re using NFP she just shuts down. For her the risk, even it it’s two percent is not worth it. Now never mind that these couples may have wanted large families – it just makes her nervous.
The best analogy I can come up with is this: If you lay a 2″ X 10″ board on the ground I can walk on it, jump on it, do handstands on it or whatever you ask me to do. Now, take that exact same board and put it 100 feet off of the ground. Mount it securely on something and let there be no wind. It would be hard for me to crawl, clnging for dear life, across that same board. Why? Well, the answer is obvious – the perceived risk is far, far greater. Now you can tell me about how I ran across that same board a hour ago and that it’s just as study now as it was then but I still won’t be able to walk on it when it’s 100 fee up in the air like I did when it was on the ground. Fear is based on perception, whether that perception is grounded in fact or not. Same thing with ice-fishing. I’ve driven a car across a lake. Some people would never even walk across the lake even when the ice is 36″ thick even though it literally could support a school bus!
I know I’m rambling but I hope I got my point across. I like everything about NFP but it does require abstinence and in our society that’s not something that’s rewarded. It seems “bad” to come home and have great news for your wife (a big promotion, for example) and you can’t go out, have a nice dinner and then end the day having a nice sexual relationship with your spouse because you use NFP. On the other hand it shows complete respect for your wife, who she is – her whole person, not just certain parts of her and that she is worth the wait.
If you still have more questions on NFP I would suggest talking to a Catholic Priest and/or going to a site like the Institute for Reproductive Health at Georgetown University, for starters. Or, look in your local phonebook. I live in a very small town and there’s an NFP office less than 20 miles from where I live.
I’m going to run for now, Sir John. As always, I hope I didn’t cause any offense.
I’m slowly coming to grips with my situation. I would have to say that it must be the work of the Holy Spirt because if you would have told me that this is where I’d be not too long ago I would have said “No way!”
Peace be with you and have a very blessed Christmas.
“When used exactly as shown these range from 95% to 99.5% effective.” I love that 95% number, if a couple makes love roughly 2x per week, a 95% success rate would mean only one pregnancy per year.
Levity aside Frustrated, permit me to post some quotes from LDS Church leaders:
First Presidency—David O. McKay, Hugh B. Brown,
N. Eldon Tanner
“We seriously regret that there should exist a sentiment
or feeling among any members of the Church
to curtail the birth of their children. We have been
commanded to multiply and replenish the earth
that we may have joy and rejoicing in our posterity.
“Where husband and wife enjoy health and vigor and are free from impurities that would be entailed upon their posterity, it is contrary to the teachings of the Church artificially to curtail or prevent the birth of children… “However, we feel that men must be considerate of their wives who bear the greater responsibility not only of bearing children, but of caring for them through childhood. To this end the mother’s health and strength should be conserved and the husband’s consideration for his wife is his first duty, and self control a dominant factor in all their relationships”
(letter to stake presidents, bishops, and mission presidents, 14 Apr. 1969).
President David O. McKay
“Love realizes his sweetest happiness and his most divine consummation in the home where the coming of children is not restricted, where they are made most welcome, and where the duties of parenthood are accepted as a co-partnership with the eternal Creator.
“In all this, however, the mother’s health should be guarded. In the realm of wifehood, the woman should reign supreme” (Gospel Ideals, 469).
Elder Ezra Taft Benson
“The world teaches birth control. Tragically, many of our sisters subscribe to its pills and practices when they could easily provide earthly tabernacles for more of our Father’s children. We know that every spirit assigned to this earth will come, whether through us or someone else. There are couples in the Church who think they are getting along just fine with their limited families but who will someday suffer the pains of remorse when they meet the spirits that might have been part of their posterity. The first commandment given to man was to multiply and replenish the earth with children. That commandment has never been altered, modified, or cancelled. The Lord did not say to multiply and replenish the earth if it is convenient, or if you are wealthy, or after you have gotten your schooling, or when there is peace on earth, or until you have four children.
From an Ensign article(church magazine).
Thus, on the family questions, if we limit our families because we are self-centered or materialistic, we will surely develop a character based on selfishness. As the scriptures make clear, that is not a description of a celestial character. I have found that we really have to analyze ourselves to discover our motives. Sometimes superficial motivations and excuses show up when we do that.
But, on the other hand, we need not be afraid of
studying the question from important angles—the
physical or mental health of the mother and father, the parents’ capacity to provide basic necessities, and so on. If for certain personal reasons a couple prayerfully decides that having another child immediately is unwise, the method of spacing children—discounting possible medical or physical effects—makes little difference. Abstinence, of course, is also a form of contraception, and like any other method it has side effects, some of which are harmful to the marriage relationship.
Dear Morguerat:
I suspect you are playing with me (hence the winking smiley face) but in case there are other readers who may not understand the proper application of statistics I just want to emphasize that the correct analysis of the “95 percent” would be that 95 percent of the people who use one of the fertility awareness methods can have sex twice a week and not conceive at all (assuming that was their goal). So, for those couples the method would be 100 percent effective. It’s that other five percent that would experience the unexpected pregnancy.
The real issue here though, as I see it, is that if a couple was having sex twice a week there’s almost no likelihood that they’ll have ever seen this website!
hannah,
I don’t know if I would describe my mood as “happy” and I am not in a “NO” sex situation, just one that is much less than I desire.
I was almost not functional a year ago – an emotional zombie.
I used the word, “peace” – in that I am calm about the pain. I mean last night I felt pain before going to sleep (and I had a hard time falling asleep because of it), in the middle of the night I woke up and felt pain, this morning before I left for work I felt pain. But it isn’t consuming me.
I must also say that I am well aware that others have situations worse than not getting enough sex. I think of the death of a spouse or child. When I think of that I feel a bit like I am an immature whiner about my little problem.
I think of my mom – a recent widow. In their latter years they have told me and my siblings several times how active and enjoyable their intimacy was (more that what I experience – TMI! TMI!). She probably has many years of life ahead of her without her spouse – let alone intimacy.